Copyright: Public Domain / Used With Permission

I firmly believe I have a right guaranteed by the Constitution of the United States to own a gun, rifle or shotgun for purposes of self defence, target shooting or hunting. I am a veteran of the Vietnam war (not a hero–I did not hear shots fired in anger). I have owned guns in the past and am comfortable with the thought that my neighbors might own them.

But I don’t believe at all that I have any right to park an Abrams tank in my driveway or a Humvee with a mounted fifty caliber machine gun. And the problem has nothing to do with the vehicles–it’s the attendant armaments that would scare my neighbors, cops and others.

Somewhere in between those two examples lies a balance that can be struck to guarantee our rights under the Second Amendment to the Constitution and the right to life delineated in its Preamble.

During training and operational exercises I witnessed the deadly power of automatic and semi-automatic rifles similar to the AR15 that has become the weapon of choice for mass shootings. I believe these weapons are on the wrong side of the balance sheet and should not be permitted in a civilian environment.

The Supreme Court of the United States has already ruled that the right to bear arms can be limited, both in terms of the types of guns available to the public and the individuals permitted to own or use them. Now, following a decade of mass shootings by madmen and terrorists (and?) we are engaged in a debate on where those lines should be drawn.

78% of Americans don’t own a gun. Half of the country’s guns are owned by 3% of its people. Most members of the National Rifle Association support strong background checks on all purchases, something that does not exist today.

I believe the limits can be drawn quickly and using common sense using those facts. Background checks for all gun sales, prohibition of gun ownership to convicted felons, convicted domestic abusers (there are shamefully some types of domestic abuse not classified as a felony), withdrawal of semi and automatic rifles from the market and a mandatory buyback of such weapons as are already in private hands.

For those conspiracy theorists fearing that the ‘guvmint’ will come and take their guns, three points:

  1. The background checks could be outsourced to a non-governmental third party–perhaps even the NRA. The government doesn’t have to know who owns the gun. Somebody just needs to cross reference the identity of the prospective purchaser with various databases of felons, abusers, those suffering from mental illness, etc.
  2. We are long past the point where individual firearms can serve as a check on potential government tyranny. The militarization of the various police departments across the country has led to a situation where an individual or a group of individuals stand no chance of opposing even a police department, let alone the country’s military. Conservatives called for–actually demanded–this militarization. The results have left us permanently at the mercy of our armed forces and law enforcement agencies.
  3. It is completely true that such regulation is very unlikely to change the overall statistics on murder and mayhem in the United States. Guns not regulated will be used, as they are today, for most murders and suicides. However, legislation can curb mass shootings, which are a small percentage of the total, but are horrific in both their frequency and effect.

The students of Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School have elevated the gun control issue to national attention (again), but with the marked difference that it is the survivors of the umpteenth mass shooting, not their parents or friends, that are making the case. Marches across the world yesterday support their pleas for common sense gun control.

We who did not march should support them too. They specifically do not call for gun confiscation or registration. They call for common sense controls similar to what I have outlined above.

Australia remains free decades after imposing very strict gun control laws. So does the United Kingdom. So will the United States.

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So Much For Subtlety
Guest
So Much For Subtlety

During training and operational exercises I witnessed the deadly power of automatic and semi-automatic rifles similar to the AR15 that has become the weapon of choice for mass shootings. I believe these weapons are on the wrong side of the balance sheet and should not be permitted in a civilian environment. I am not sure the AR-15 is the weapon of choice for mass shootings. How many have they been involved in? Not Sandy Hook. Not the Aurora Theatre where the shooter used a shotgun, a Glock and a S&W. San Bernardino? Not sure. Not the First Baptist Church in… Read more »

Tom Fuller
Guest
Tom Fuller

You are incorrect: Adam Lanza stormed Sandy Hook Elementary with a Bushmaster AR-15, laying down more than 150 rounds in less than five minutes and slaughtering 20 first-graders. James Holmes wielded a Smith & Wesson “Military & Police” (M&P) AR-15 fitted with a 100-round drum magazine in his siege of a movie theater that killed 12 and wounded 58. The San Bernardino, California, shooters carried a pair of AR-15s in their ISIS-inspired rampage that left 14 dead. Orlando shooter Omar Mateen deployed Sig Sauer’s concealable “next-generation AR” to murder 49 and injure dozens more at the Pulse nightclub – the… Read more »

Gamecock
Guest
Gamecock

Nikolas Cruz used 10-round magazines.

So Much For Subtlety
Guest
So Much For Subtlety

You are incorrect: Adam Lanza stormed Sandy Hook Elementary with a Bushmaster AR-15 As usual I am not incorrect. Lanza used a Bushmaster XM-15 – a gun that looks like an AR-15 but isn’t. The black plastic military look has become very fashionable for a lot of people. James Holmes wielded a Smith & Wesson “Military & Police” (M&P) AR-15 No, he used a shotgun, a Glock and a a Smith & Wesson M&P15 Sport rifle. Not an AR-15 anything. You really don’t know bubkis do you? Orlando shooter Omar Mateen deployed Sig Sauer’s concealable “next-generation AR” to murder 49… Read more »

Jason Lynch
Member

In the thriving US civilian firearm community, “AR-15” is shorthand for the whole constellation of weapons derived from Stoner’s original design since the patent (last held by Colt) ran out. http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/tag/ar-15/ There are all-out holy wars about the best combination of upper receiver, lower receiver, trigger group, barrel… (and don’t even start on calibre, or direct-impingement versus short-stroke piston) in order to “build your own AR”. Technically it’s still a Colt’s Manufacturing trademark, but in practice it’s used as a generic term like “Maxim”, “Handley Page” and “Hoover” once were. “While Colt alone makes the official AR-15, variants and knock-offs… Read more »

Jason Lynch
Member

I’d also throw in the question about whether the explosion in sales of firearms in general and AR-15 pattern rifles in particular after Sandy Hook has produced a corresponding increase in violent mayhem? Doesn’t appear to have done so on casual study…
The biggest risk posed by virtually all the “modern sporting rifle” community is that they’ll bore you to the point of tearing your own ears off about the relative merits of Noveske versus Daniel Defense components…

So Much For Subtlety
Guest
So Much For Subtlety

Don’t *tell* him. Tom is just a concern troll pretending to know something about guns. And I would guess pretending to be a Vet too.

In this situation explaining his mistake only makes him a better concern troll.

Mr Ecks
Member
Mr Ecks

Any gun ban is the intro to bans of all. The type of gun is irrelevant bullshit. If all the above happened every single day it would have to go on for several thousand years to reach the total of those murdered by the armed thugs of socialist state in the last 100 years alone. 80 protesters against Maduro shot dead last year in Venezuela with guns handed out by that turd to his socialist thugs. The lefts love of gun control vanishes double-quick when their scum are getting the shooters handed to them. Not to mention all the Antifa… Read more »

allthegoodnamesaretaken
Guest
allthegoodnamesaretaken

“but with the marked difference that it is the survivors of the umpteenth mass shooting, not their parents or friends, that are making the case.”

And who is pulling their strings?
https://sultanknish.blogspot.co.uk/2018/03/who-runs-march-for-our-lives.html

Tom Fuller
Guest
Tom Fuller

I don’t know if you are a bot or just have a bad heart, but that is just crap.

Mr Ecks
Member
Mr Ecks

It’s CRAP!!!. Snotnopes and his Mother Jones told him so.

Talk of “bad heart –from a death cult supporter like you FS? Wash the blood off yourself before you talk of other folks “bad hearts” you sanctimonious poltroon.

Tim Newman
Member

The reason gun owners are refusing to compromise an inch is because they know their opponents will take a mile, and once one concession has been made they’ll immediately start demanding another. This is how the left work across the entire western world, and gun owners are one of the few who see they are arguing in bad faith, and pretty much alone in refusing to engage with them.

Tom Fuller
Guest
Tom Fuller

But large majorities of gun owners support mandatory background checks. It is not gun owners refusing to compromise an inch. It is the NRA and their paid lackeys. There is a big difference.

So Much For Subtlety
Guest
So Much For Subtlety

The NRA is an association of millions of gun owners. Unlike the astro-turf groups run by Bloomberg and Soros. It pretty much represents gun owners, not dark money.

So no, it is not that gun owners want to compromise. They do not. The Supreme Court tends to side with them these days. After all, if more laws were popular, America would have more laws. They are so unpopular that even the Democrats know better than to touch them.

higgs106
Member
higgs106

Tom, Background checks are already mandatory, the feds just suck at keeping a database updated with all the excluded persons (another $100 million can’t fix that incompetence). The real argument for civilian armament as a deterrent against the tyrannical thirst for more government power over the citizenry is not that the citizens could defeat the military/police if it came down to it. It is more about making the prospect of those enforcing tyrannical overreach greater than it would be with a disarmed citizenry, hence discouraging the average military/police member from enforcing said overreach when they know we may be similarly… Read more »

Mr Ecks
Member
Mr Ecks

And you know this how? The background bit that is–the cockrot about the NRA is boilerplate agitprop.

Spike
Member

Why does every gun-grabber, including Hillary Clinton, need to start out with a statement of our rights under the Second Amendment? Rights that belong to the individual, predate the Constitutional expression of them, and do not require any particular purpose for owning weapons? Because the nature of this con is, “I am one of you. But let’s be reasonable!” “Common-sense” curtailment of the Constitution, by discovering other rights in our founding documents with which to “balance” it. And then you use a list of ways in which unprincipled officials have snipped away at this right to clear the way to… Read more »

Tom Fuller
Guest
Tom Fuller

Oh, okay. Australia and Great Britain are not free. They lost their liberty the same time as they lost their guns. Right.

Ru-bot.

Backing away slowly now…

Southerner
Member

Australia, the ultimate nanny state yeah. Free speech is illegal in Great Britain. But continue?

Mr Ecks
Member
Mr Ecks

Backing away slowly now–right up your own lying leftist arsehole.

The UK is a country where a man is likely to be jailed for a bad joke and where imported shite mass rape and molest young girls with leftist granted immunity. The fact that a few pockets of open exchange still exist doesn’t alter the truth.

Spike
Member

Oops, just saw the by-line. You are not being manipulated, you are joining in the manipulation. The con is “I am one of you” but you are not. I am here because I enjoy Tim Worstall’s ability to cut through the crap in the day’s newspapers – not to read new crap, targeted toward civil readers, from a leftie author who, underneath his last submission, got quite uncivil.

Gamecock
Guest
Gamecock

‘However, legislation can curb mass shootings, which are a small percentage of the total, but are horrific in both their frequency and effect.’

And it can curb obesity, too.

Would you be happier little girl if they used IEDs?

‘The students of Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School have elevated the gun control issue to national attention’

They’re just kids; they can’t elevate anything. But your ilk is all too happy to exploit them in their anguish.

The hell with democracy; let’s give control to some high school kids.

Tom Fuller
Guest
Tom Fuller

Hmm. One Ru-bot insists they are controlled by invisible, malign forces and now another Ru-bot fears that we shall be controlled by… gasp…. children, who (the horror) are gasp…. liberal! And sure, Spiky–I’m sure the bot program requires you to spit out your panic phrase about the right to firearms, no matter how many times your interlocutor says that’s not what they are proposing. All rights under the Constitution are subject to control, ranging from free speech (fire in a crowded theater) to search and seizure. My right to own a gun is equally subject to various controls. So says… Read more »

So Much For Subtlety
Guest
So Much For Subtlety

hat I would be happy to discuss with someone who isn’t a Russian Idibot is the nature and extent of needed controls. Except you start out by admitting the controls you want would do nothing to reduce the number of deaths. Nothing. So the controls are not needed. And you are not debating their nature and their extent. You are virtue signalling. You want to be accepted by all the Right People in the Smart Set. That is all. It is like saying you do not like porn so Hustler ought to be banned. Except that policy makes sense.

NiV
Guest
NiV

“You are virtue signalling. You want to be accepted by all the Right People in the Smart Set.” I think this may be where the argument goes wrong. You’re making tribal assumptions about why people believe different things to you. But tribal virtue-signalling is not the only possibility. It may simply be that because the two tribes never communicate (because if anyone from another tribe turns up invective and abuse is hurled at them until they go away), and therefore they don’t know about the same set of arguments, counter-arguments, sources, facts, and so on. If you only watch CNN,… Read more »

Mr Ecks
Member
Mr Ecks

And while we are at it those who endorse socialism ARE endorsing the murders of 150 million. Something that you NiV comment on as “boring”. While boo hooing about Desperate Dans in Drag suffering ribald remarks. And endless claims about supposed daily beatings that exist only in your own brainpan. Leesee–brutal mass murders plus torture, false imprisonment for decades and the total exercise of absolute tyranny over hundreds of millions VS ribald remarks and an occasional unfortunate yet non-fatal assault from the uncouth. Naw–you’re right NiV –who gives a shit about murders. I don’t give a rat’s arse what assorted… Read more »

Mr Ecks
Member
Mr Ecks

Bogus charm and “politeness” are weapons. There can be no compromise with evil no matter how charming the offer to put the noose around your own neck is. FS started the ad homs off with his first response asking about who was “programming” SMFS. Because that is the Russia/Russia/Russia left-loony world he inhabits As for your cod “reasonable” approach NiV –bollocks to it. The world has been far too polite and reasonable to the Death Cult and its stooges for far too long. And the rise of extra-vile shit like Corbin is proof. Let the scum of the left get… Read more »

NiV
Guest
NiV

“NiV, I am far from convinced that I have lost any of the arguments entered into here.”

Fair point. It’s not over until it’s over. Let’s say, you might not have won *yet* then. 🙂

Not that ‘winning’ is necessarily the point… Question is, was it a good, enjoyable debate?

NiV
Guest
NiV

“The problem is that he admits his reforms – most of which already exist – would do nothing to reduce the gun death rate. As they wouldn’t. So he is not putting forward a good faith argument intended to reduce gun crime. As he himself admits.” Everyone does this. I made exactly the same point recently with regard to the 2.7m Muslims in Britain and the average six deaths per year caused bt terrorism. And yet we repeatedly see Islamic terrorism being cited as a reason to ban Muslims. You can say the same thing about fire alarms and peanut… Read more »

So Much For Subtlety
Guest
So Much For Subtlety

NiV March 26, 2018 at 11:06 pm I think this may be where the argument goes wrong. You’re making tribal assumptions about why people believe different things to you. Well no, I am not. I read his argument very carefully. The problem is that he admits his reforms – most of which already exist – would do nothing to reduce the gun death rate. As they wouldn’t. So he is not putting forward a good faith argument intended to reduce gun crime. As he himself admits. He is virtue signalling. Your arguments are usually bad and I invariably disagree with… Read more »

Gamecock
Guest
Gamecock

“ranging from free speech (fire in a crowded theater)”

This is exactly why you are a shit.

If there is a fire in a crowded theater, someone NEEDS to shout, “Fire.” If someone tries to shoot up a school, people need to be prepared to defend the kids.

Your surrender is cowardice.

Mr Ecks
Member
Mr Ecks

The kidz are young dumb snot being used by leftscum like you FS. Fuck the Supreme Court and any others who think to disarm. You know very well what this is about. The price of trying to coerce an armed populace is much higher for the scum of the socialistic state than the price of controlling –and murdering should the whim take them–a disarmed one. Arseholes like you–whose cup brims over with plans for the better organising of other peoples lives ( regardless of what those others might want for themselves)– can’t do to people who have the means to… Read more »

Spike
Member

Democracy could give control to high-school kids. Some states and cities are toying with giving the local vote to 16-year-olds although 18 is the Constitutional standard for federal elections. Fortunately, we are not a democracy but a republic, in which the Constitution protects citizen rights, explicitly including the right to firearms, from majorities voting for their desired outcomes (no matter how improbable).

Gamecock
Guest
Gamecock

‘Australia remains free decades after imposing very strict gun control laws.’

Free from responsibility.

Australia is naked. Depending on the U.S. and Britain for protection. Obama would not have lifted a finger to help your white asses if China invaded. Britain is becoming too weak to help.

I can see India and China partitioning Australia in my lifetime. Only question is will they do it N-S or E-W.

Enjoy your decadence, Tom Fuller. It will be your demise.

Gamecock
Guest
Tom Fuller
Guest
Tom Fuller

As someone who served alongside Australians, I can only say you’re another Russian IDIbot.

Gamecock
Guest
Gamecock

You’re really not getting the existential catastrophe for Australia that gun control is.

India and China have 2.7 billion people. Australia sits down there with immense land available. You have a nominal military, and a disarmed citizenry.

You are naked. As naked as Pearl Harbor in 1941. Another Obama in the U.S., a pacifist in the UK, and you are dead. Seriously, completely, permanently dead.

Gamecock
Guest
Gamecock

“As someone who served alongside Australians”

Another declaration of orthodoxy.

And what’s this Russian shit?

Mr Ecks
Member
Mr Ecks

I served alongside Aussies
You are a BOT,BOT,BOT etc

You want to fill in the missing pieces of that syllogism Digger?

Served –in a brothel?

Mr Ecks
Member
Mr Ecks

So Fuller-Shit is the new clickbait editor is he Tim? Listen up Tomo. Gun control is what has enabled scum who spew the same creed as you to murder 150 million people and ruin the lives , hopes and potential of hundreds of millions of others. In a decent society gun control freakery would bring T&S charges and some time for types like you in the glass house. Where you would get a very clear and direct lesson on what it is like to desperately need an effective means of self protection and be denied one. Something that decent law-abiding… Read more »

Tom Fuller
Guest
Tom Fuller

Ru-bot, Ru-bot. Boring…

Mr Ecks
Member
Mr Ecks

Remember to thank NiV for your inspiration parasite. You can’t even think up your own comebacks.

Tom Fuller
Guest
Tom Fuller

Ah–NiV noticed your programmatic tendencies first? He does seem like a clever fellow. Perhaps great minds just think alike. But at least we think, Rubot.

NiV
Guest
NiV

Wow! I think that’s the nicest thing I can recall you’ve ever said about me! Thanks! Regarding Tom’s view on gun control, you are correct that I don’t agree with him, for a lot of the same reasons others have cited. My favourite argument along those lines is that if politicians think eliminating guns is such a great idea, they ought to start with the government. Have the police and all those secret service guys standing around the politicians disarm first, wait a year or so to see how that works out, and if people still think it helps maybe… Read more »

Mr Ecks
Member
Mr Ecks

The blog is smeared with your thought processes FS. A veritable dirty blanket protest of the mind it is.

NiV –as tiresome as his SJW got-at mindset is on some matters– is generally sound on libertarian matters that don’t involve the left’s boo hoo client groups. So not likely a pal of your people-control plans. I can’t–nor would I want to–speak for him but it seems likely so.

Tommydog
Guest
Tommydog

It’s an interesting debate. It is true that murder rates have fallen greatly since they peaked in the early ’90s, and are now about where they were in the early ’60s. Some portion of that, however, is attributable to greatly improved advances in trauma treatment and the proliferation of cell phones (a shot person or witness does not need to hunt for a pay phone and then hope they have some coins any longer). But I’ll acknowledge that the US for most Americans is probably about as safe as it was 60 years ago. That’s not to say that there… Read more »

Tom Fuller
Guest
Tom Fuller

Another factor in the very real decline in murder rates is our recovery from long term lead poisoning. The correlation between environmental exposure to lead and violent crime is startling. It is well-chronicled by Kevin Drum over at Mother Jones, a publication I cite only to annoy some of the commenters here. 🙂

So Much For Subtlety
Guest
So Much For Subtlety

There isn’t such a strong correlation between lead and crime as it happens. But I do like it when Liberals admit that Blacks have massively higher crime rates. Something they usually call racism. But they do. So the only way to admit it is to argue for an external cause – lead. You can’t argue that it is genetics or culture or even that locking people up works. That is all racism. But you can blame the Man for the lead and demand a massive government programme of new housing in order to reduce crime. Steve Sailor has written on… Read more »

Mr Ecks
Member
Mr Ecks

Glad you have an sound assessment of their level of accuracy and truth Tommyboy. Grade Z leftist cockrot. Although you certainly deserve an acute case of lead poisoning. Preferably at the hands of a illegal alien criminal with an illegal gun he got from Eric Holder.

As for nuisance value–you’re the cunt who wastes his life reading their under-recycled toilet paper not us.

If its going to be bot,bot,bot next I’ll go and make some tea.

Tom Fuller
Guest
Tom Fuller

Mr. Ecks, you write like a bot–why on earth would I treat you like something else? You do not engage with what I or others write. You just paste in crap copied from bot sites and throw in mindless insults.

You act like a Ru-bot. So to me, Ru-bot you will be.

Have a nice cup of tea.

Mr Ecks
Member
Mr Ecks

What you mean by “engaged with” is “agree with”.

Your “arguments” have been demolished several times over. SMFS did the work of demolishing your bollocks right at the start. But you have no others beyond boilerplate Party-of-Slavery-and-The-Klan rhetoric.

You answered the one point about what weapons were used–in a FEW–of the killingS and then started talking about his “programmers”. Cos that is all you have leftist–lies and bullshit.

Spike
Member

That is true; the would-be murderer is not as sure he can kill, and is not as sure he can survive the encounter. Massacres are indeed “horrific,” schoolyard massacres more so, and kennel massacres much more so and does everyone know how much I loooove puppies? The key is that we have no right to freedom from horror, and Having a Nice Day is not one of the functions of government. Accepting your figure that 78% of Americans don’t own a gun, it is never necessary that everyone own a gun – just that every would-be killer worries about it.… Read more »

Tommydog
Guest
Tommydog

I grew up in a rural area and spent much of my youth in the woods with gun in hand. I’ve a couple of bolt action rides and a double barreled shotgun that I’ve had since I was young. So, while I don’t hunt much any more I’ve been reluctant to sell the guns. I understand the attraction. I also grew up in an era when not a lot of people hunted with semiautos and were sometimes regarded with a bit of disdain by the old timers with their bolt and lever actions. I’ve nothing against bolt, lever and pump… Read more »

Mr Ecks
Member
Mr Ecks

Republic not a democracy. Limits on state power. Remember those?

And the losing battle is against general tyranny. Gun control is only the symptom.

And you only like guns that are the least use against said state’s goons. Hot diggity.

So Much For Subtlety
Guest
So Much For Subtlety

I like the effort to smear everyone who supports gun rights as being old. Classy. But while 4/5ths of Americans may not own a gun, in the same way a lot more of them do not own Playboy magazine, that does not mean they do not support gun rights – the 2nd as well as the 1st Amendment.

More gun control is a dead issue in America because it is not popular. That is why people like Bloomberg have to cynically exploit these children.

Tommydog
Guest
Tommydog

“And you only like guns that are the least use against said state’s goons. Hot diggity.”

Yeah, that’s true. While I take the point the third world guerrilla fighters have given modern armies conniptions, these fighters are often young. A bunch of 60 year olds might not be as effective.

I also doubt that it’s a winning argument to pull the almost 4/5ths of Americans who don’t own a gun over to your side, but hey, have at it.

Mr Ecks
Member
Mr Ecks

You are another US gun control stooge Tommydog. Indeed your appearances over here started with the last gun control piece back on the blog. As an astroturfer who used to shoot ..whatever.. but-who-is-now-slowly-seeing -the-light etc, etc. Quite a common lefttroll tactic. The demographics are changing. Americans are giving way to imports from assorted police states who are used to kissing the arse of tyranny but pleasantly surprised to be handed hard-working peoples money as well. Oh yeah–you bet they will crawl to their new paymasters. And America can become a lefitst shithole like any other. A couple more brazen false… Read more »

Tommydog
Guest
Tommydog

Actually, I posted a number of times on Mr Worstall’s blog going back a few years into his Forbes days. I’m probably one of the most conservative economic commenters here, hence why I enjoy Worstall’s sites so much.

Tom Fuller
Guest
Tom Fuller

Hi Tommydog, me too. I have been reading Tim’s other blog for a long time. That’s why I asked if I could contribute here.

Tom Fuller
Guest
Tom Fuller

Ru-bot, Ru-bot.

Southerner
Member

All the ad homs are a last-resort admission that you have lost the argument. I’ve run across you somewhere else, possibly the old lukewarmist page? and remember you as a reasonable person. Some of your replies here are also eminently reasonable, but ru-bot, ru-bot is just plain childish. Get a grip.

NiV
Guest
NiV

“All the ad homs are a last-resort admission that you have lost the argument.”

All the ad homs are a direct response to Ecksy’s ad homs. You can’t have it both ways. Either ‘ad hominem abusive’ (as used by Ecks and others) is a legitimate mode of argument here, or it isn’t.

NiV
Guest
NiV

Yes, that’s me.

Mr Ecks
Member
Mr Ecks

At least you are moronic in short compass Tomo.

Mr Ecks
Member
Mr Ecks

Gun control only “conserves” the thuggish and evil power of the state. Which is why leftist pricks like Fuller-shite love it. If you claim to be a conservative you should know better. Your piece sounded full of approval for the scum of the state being the only one with guns.

Tom Fuller
Guest
Tom Fuller

Here is the C++ code for shutting down a Ru-Bot: #include #include #include using namespace std; int main(int argc, char *argv[]) { system(“color B2”); cout<<"****** Enter a number to do shown below ******"<<endl; cout<<"1= shut down all programs running now"<<endl; cout<<"2= Restart the computer"<<endl; cout<<"3= Shutdown the computer"<>x; for(;;){ if(x==1){ system(“shutdown -f”); } break; if(x==2){ system(“shutdown -r”); } break; if(x==3){ system(“shutdown -s”); } break; if(x==51){ system(“shutdown -s -t 1”); } else { cout<<"enter again"; } } system("pause");

Lurker
Guest
Lurker

My C is a little rusty but isnt cout<<"3= Shutdown the computer"x; a syntax error? You need a call to cin. Also your code wouldnt work unless 1 was entered. The break statements would exit the for loop but are not within the ‘if’ block therefore if x=1 system(“shutdown -f”); will run but the next instruction will always be break and so the other options are not available. Personally I would have gone with a switch statement to make the conditions clearer, a default instead of the else (which only applies to the very last if for some reason) and… Read more »

Mr Ecks
Member
Mr Ecks

Once again your powers of argument just leave the reader stunned. Aristotle himself could not follow or stand against such brilliant refutation.

Quentin Vole
Member
Quentin Vole

It’s always pleasing when the author responds to criticism in the comments. But when the response is, in every case, a one-word chant of ‘ru-bot’, one begins to fear for their sanity …

Wheelz
Guest
Wheelz

From his comments here, I don’t think that Fuller understands the NRA, why they are effective and why they usually win. There are no paid NRA lackeys. They don’t contribute anything to political campaigns. Instead, they spend all their money on get out the vote activities and advertising against candidates via PACs. They are incredibly effective at getting out the vote and are likely the reason Trump won. The reason that people vote with the NRA even though they are individually OK with limited gun controls is the same reason liberal vote with Planned Parenthood against any limits on abortion,… Read more »

Mr Ecks
Member
Mr Ecks

“I firmly believe I have a right guaranteed by the Constitution of the United States to own a gun, rifle or shotgun for purposes of self defence, target shooting or hunting. I am a veteran of the Vietnam war (not a hero–I did not hear shots fired in anger). I have owned guns in the past and am comfortable with the thought that my neighbors might own them.” So he starts off with classic Astroturfing bullshit. “I am one of you –I support you–I’ve carried a gun for the Murderous State–I USED to own them”. He seeks to portray himself… Read more »

Pcar
Guest
Pcar

@So Much For Subtlety, March 26, 2018 at 9:26 am

+1

Good post.

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Then:
@Tom Fuller March 26, 2018 at 4:09 pm

As for the rest of your comment, tell your programmer that using the name Soros is a bit of a hint to human readers.

First reply and you can’t restrain yourself and instantly resort to ad hominem attack & insults.

Revealing your weaknesses once again. Well done.

Bongo
Member
Bongo

I’d be curious to know if Cliven Bundy was armed with semi-automatics and above in his standoff with the BLM. The wiki article doesn’t say. It seems to me that he successfully scared the agents of the State enough to make them stand down, so he did his bit to limit the power of the State. Would also be curious to know if anyone in SWI is seriously concerned that the State will abuse its power, and if they permit semi-automatics. In general though I agree with Tom’s premise, that there are already limits as to what private citizens can… Read more »

So Much For Subtlety
Guest
So Much For Subtlety

You can legally own a tank. In the US and the UK. Rightly so. When was the last time a privately owned tank hurt anyone?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4404096/Military-buffs-discover-five-gold-bars-Iraqi-tank.html

And the problem is that the limits that this thread want drawn as drawn as part of the Culture Wars, not a genuine, good faith effort at saving lives. As he starts out admitting, these restrictions would have no impact on gun deaths at all.

PJF
Guest
PJF

“For those conspiracy theorists fearing that the ‘guvmint’ will come and take their guns…” It’s hardly the stuff of “conspiracy theory”. In 1996, a mass shooting at a school in Scotland resulted in the deaths 16 young children and one teacher (15 others wounded). The killer had two pistols and two revolvers, i.e. handguns. In 1997, the UK government (Conservative then Labour) banned all handguns from private ownership in England, Scotland and Wales. The government came and took the guns. If a ban on semi-automatic rifles was passed in the US, and worked as intended, then the next (then the… Read more »

Gamecock
Guest
Gamecock

‘Australia remains free decades after imposing very strict gun control laws. So does the United Kingdom. So will the United States.’ The 2nd Amendment exists because having a gun is not just a right, it is a duty. The right must be preserved because a well regulated militia is necessary for the security of the state. You, as a citizen, are expected to be armed, ready to come to the aid of your family, your community, your state. You are not prepared to come to the aid of your family, your community, nor your state. You are a shirker. A… Read more »

Randolph
Guest
Randolph

Tom,

Labelling anyone you disagree with as a “bot” simply makes you look inadequate. (Hint: most people are smart enough not to engage with stuff they can’t handle or is going to be too involved for them?)

Your first response to SMFS (after the first paragraph) was just pathetic.

Randolph
Guest
Randolph

“78% of Americans don’t own a gun.”

This in interesting. On the basis that most women wouldn’t and most kids shouldn’t, are we in fact dealing with a much higher ordinary percentage?

Dennis The Peasant
Member
Dennis The Peasant

Timmy – I don’t know where you found this fool, but the unfortunate fact is that he doesn’t understand the subject at hand. It appears you’ve landed the Richard Murphy of firearms. As I said, that’s unfortunate. Tom – The fact that an “AR-15” was used in various shootings is irrelevant. The AR-15 is a semi-automatic rifle. It is no more capable or lethal than most other semi-automatic rifles. The only real difference between the .223 AR-15 used at Sandy Hook and, say, a .223 Ruger Mini 14 is looks (and popularity). The rates of fire and ammunition capacity are,… Read more »

Dennis The Peasant
Member
Dennis The Peasant

“During training and operational exercises I witnessed the deadly power of automatic and semi-automatic rifles similar to the AR15 that has become the weapon of choice for mass shootings.” I can pull out my Ruger Single 10, and with use of speed loaders, sustain a relatively high rate of fire of 22lr with a revolver. Smith & Wesson, Ruger and Taurus (there may be others) manufacture 8 shot revolvers chambered in .357. Again, with the use of speed loaders, you can lay down a high rate of fire. Revolvers will never allow you the rate of fire of a semi-automatic,… Read more »

Dennis The Peasant
Member
Dennis The Peasant

“Most members of the National Rifle Association support strong background checks on all purchases, something that does not exist today.”

An unsupported claim. Please explain, in detail, why you feel the present background check system is inadequate. What would you propose (again, in detail) to make it “strong”? For example, what would you add to the Form 4473? Are there other databases beyond the NCIS, NCIC and III that should be utilized? What are the shortcomings of three databases in use?

Dennis The Peasant
Member
Dennis The Peasant

“I do.”

Really? You don’t let on.

Dennis The Peasant
Member
Dennis The Peasant

I thought I was clear, but evidently not. I was challenging you to detail what you would do to strengthen background checks over the present system. Color me less than surprised that you didn’t bother to offer any sort of concrete suggestions.

Dennis The Peasant
Member
Dennis The Peasant

“Dennis, you can swear at me, call me ignorant, throw mud at me–but don’t compare me to that twat.”

Well, then do better than that twat.

Dennis The Peasant
Member
Dennis The Peasant

“78% of Americans don’t own a gun.”

A perfect example of a Murphyism. That isn’t 78% of the population that is legally entitled to own a gun, it’s 78% of the entire population… You know, everyone from three week old infants and prisoners sitting on Death Row.

Under the circumstances why wouldn’t I compare you to Richard Murphy?

Randolph
Guest
Randolph

NiV “I’ve not checked every instance, but I think the reason you have the impression he was impolite to everyone is that nearly everyone was impolite to him.” I think the tone for the thread was set with the very first response! SMFS was perfectly civil, engaged thoroughly, and was pointlessly dismissed with a puerile reference to his “programmer”? And no matter how Ecks and others respond, have you not found in your experience that the author of a thread will generally want to hold themselves perhaps to a higher standard than a bunch of anonymous responses, if they wish… Read more »

Dennis The Peasant
Member
Dennis The Peasant

“But here’s the thing: In 2015, nearly 16,000 ineligible gun owners were able to acquire firearms through the “default proceed” law — including Dylann Roof, who then went on to kill nine people in Charleston, South Carolina.” All that tells me is that the FBI under James Comey was incompetent, and that Comey was ineffective. If they needed more resources to ensure the flagged purchases were thoroughly investigated within the three day window, Comey should have made it an issue with President Barack Obama. I don’t recall him ever doing that. Given that the FBI failed to follow protocol in… Read more »

Dennis The Peasant
Member
Dennis The Peasant

I love the fact that Fuller proposes a ban and mandatory buy-back of semi-automatic rifles, but leaves semi-automatic pistols alone. So he’d take your 25 shot Ruger Mini 14 in the name of Safety, but let you keep your Glock 19 with the 33 round magazine.

Makes perfect sense.

Kind of like Richard Murphy claiming you can get a significant reduction in the tax gap by increasing the scrutiny on large corporations and large corporations alone…

So Much For Subtlety
Guest
So Much For Subtlety
Gamecock
Guest
Gamecock

After every massacre of unarmed people, the Left demands we disarm MORE people.

PF
Guest
PF

Brilliant thread!

Thomas, you should do one on climate change; if I recall from loads of reading a few years back, that’s a real specialism of yours?

And with a few provocative cross links to those over at the heart of the religion, that might really get Tim’s hit counter swinging…

Dennis The Peasant
Member
Dennis The Peasant

To sum up Tom Fuller’s argument:

“Semi-automatic rifles scare me. Make them go away.”

Given that it will be at least a few weeks before the legislation is passed, court challenges addressed and the buy-back program completed, I suggest we all pitch in and buy him a support animal until he really is safe.

Give what we know about Tom so far, I’m thinking dung beetle.