Government For The People And By The People

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So, if you decide to govern by sortition what do you end up with?

President Macron’s attempt to appease yellow-vest protesters has saddled him with radical ecological policy proposals likely to further damage the wobbling French economy.

They stem from his decision to delegate the fight against climate change to 150 members of the public chosen at random.

That group has now come up with a plan to modify the way the French shop, travel and produce food, including the closure of out-of-town hypermarkets to encourage shopping locally, and shelving the 5G network because it uses 30 per cent more electricity than previous iterations.

The panel also wants to prohibit the sale of cars that emit more than 110g of CO2 per kilometre by 2025 — far below that emitted by most existing vehicles, in effect outlawing them — and a ban on advertising hoardings to prevent consumers driving long distances to buy products they do not need.

Television, radio, internet and press advertisements for products generating high levels of CO2 would also be banned, and those that were authorised would have to carry the wording: “Do you really need this? Overconsumption harms the planet.”

Well, you end up with purblind idiocy of course.

Yet we do in fact still want government for the people by the people. Which is, admittedly, a bit of a problem. Answers on a postcard to the Elysee.

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Pat
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Pat

One wonders if the 150 members of the public were given any guidance. Indeed one wonders how much care went into ensuring that they were in fact selected randomly- not as simple as it sounds.

Boganboy
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Boganboy

True. They’d have to at least volunteer to take on the job. They’d hardly do this if they thought the proper answer was ‘Do nothing.’

Spike
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Spike

A test of the adage that “I’d rather be governed by the first 150 names in the phone book than by 150 [Harvard professors/Congressmen].” Unless the agenda was set for them: runaway* man-caused* #ClimateCrisis.

So the public-school ethos takes over: You are nothing unless you Make A Difference In The Community, by advocating measures that have to be coercive, and have to be intrusive, so everyone will know it’s you mandating it. Egos have been replaced by egos.

Louie
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Louie

One might wonder. One might then take 10 seconds to find out:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizens_convention_for_ecological_transition
The French exercise is used to inform a governing committee which can make recommendations for legislation etc.
No volunteers; no egotists; they were given guidance; these aren’t government decisions.

Pat
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Pat

How did they coerce the ones that couldn’t be bothered? Including the ones who saw the word. “ecological” and thought it a waste of time. How was the sampling done? Maybe they’re selecting from the phone book, thus excluding those whose names didn’t appear. It’s actually very difficult to get a truly random sample. That’s why pollsters are rarely spot on. And what guidance was given by what experts? Pick the right experts and you sure can influence the decision- in whatever direction you choose. Did the 150 get to call in experts of their own choosing? What exactly was… Read more »

Leo Savantt
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Leo Savantt

From the article you linked to: “the citizens’ convention for ecological transition be organized by the Economical, Social and Environmental Council (Cese), which he is the president. “… the organization of the convention, the independence of its governance committee and its mandate: « To reduce the french emissions of greenhouse gas by at least 40 % compared to 1990, in a spirit of social justice ». In other words it is blatantly clear that the whole exercise is biased, no consideration is given to the idea that increasing France’s CO2 emissions by at least 40% might not be a far… Read more »

Spike
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Spike

Louie makes three! One might suppose Richard Murphy pointed all his acolytes toward Continental Telegraph, adding, “Do be snotty!”

Michael van der Riet
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Michael van der Riet

I don’t believe it possible that a group of such out-and-out dingbats could have been randomly selected. Obviously their dicta are not government decisions because it would be extremely difficult to find a government not located at the base of the Korean peninsula that would be so bloody stupid.

Arthur Dent
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Arthur Dent

Like the recent UK Climate Change Citizens Assembly they start with good intentions, in France I think 200,000 citizens were selected randomly and ASKED to participate. Only 150 agreed at which point the thing becomes non-random and self selected (activist dominated). The only ay sortition can work is if participation is compulsory, just like Jury SErvice

Laimonas Nikolajevas
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Laimonas Nikolajevas

Given normal government decisions the proposed ones are par for the course. Nothing special even.

Pat
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Pat

Which is what makes me think this is more like astroturfing what the government wants to do.

Bloke in North Dorset
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Bloke in North Dorset

“and shelving the 5G network because it uses 30 per cent more electricity than previous iterations.”

I’d like to see their calculations on that one because the spectrum efficiency of 5G is up to 8x LTE and they’ve moved a lot of core processing to the edge.

My guess is they’ve just looked at the additional power requirements at the base station, which is nonsense if they have.

Ben S
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Ben S

Of all the populations to try this on, I wouldn’t have started with the French…

Jon Jermey
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Jon Jermey

Australia tried something similar under Gillard. It was quietly shelved for much the same reasons.

jgh
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jgh

So their plan is to attempt to abolish being human? How *DARE* you aspire to move beyond fulfilling needs to fulfilling wants, you are only to be allowed to have needs. Outlaw theatre, outlaw books, outlaw TV, outlaw makeup, outlaw model railways, BAN CULTURE!”23232!1!”!!!1